Transitioning and Changing Sexuality
Feministing has a regular sex advice column called Ask Professor Foxy. I submitted a question about sexuality changing over the course of the transition, which was posted – along with a response – earlier today. The basis of the question was this: I’m a trans woman in the process of transitioning, and having a lot of frustration in figuring out how to deal with my ever-changing sexuality.
And from the resposne:
Part of this process is also going to have to be exploring your new body and your new desires and not judging yourself during this process. You can even think of it as a burden or as an extra gift during transition. Unlike cisgendered women, who typically have to get used to things on their body, you are going to be able to explore things on your body that you very much want: the breasts, the hips you will likely develop. Enjoy it!
It’s definitely worth reading, but what’s a lot more interesting is the comments…
I’m going to say that, overall, the comments are really positive. There’s a lot of good links, and good advice, and general well-wishings. As I said, you should check it out. However, two things are worth noting. First, the obliviousness of those putting out transphobic comments (or, much worse, their intentional ill-will). Second, how quickly a post explicitly on trans sexuality got sidelined into a meta-discussion about how the discussion should happen, and how those posting transphobic/offtopic comments should be handled.
Concerning the first issue, there was really only one explicitly transphobic post:
butterflywings said: ‘Having boobs is fun!’…uh…blech.
Wait till strangers feel entitled to grab them or comment on their size. I know they are ‘funbags’ to you, as you were male and still carry around misogyny.
*Waits for comment to be deleted as being ‘transphobic’…sigh.*
Yep, those poor trans people gotta run off in a sulk because some commenters didn’t agree with them…
I responded to the post at Feministing and don’t need to cover that same ground again. There were some other posts that were somewhat offtopic, but not really worth mentioning, and one that was read as transphobic by some commenters, but the poster came back and clarified what she meant. But I want to highlight butterflywings’ post and note that people are still oblivious to saying transphobic things (or, even worse, know it’s transphobic and say it anyway), even after extensive discussion at Feministing and elsewhere on how to conduct yourself when discussing a topic concerning a minority group (in this case, trans issues), from the perspective of one granted social/cultural privilege by not being a member of that group.
More frustrating is how quickly the comments devolved into a meta-discussion on how to hold the discussion. As I said, I’m still glad I submitted the question and that it was chosen to be posted, and I really am getting a lot out of Prof F’s response and further comments from others. But, by my count, between one half and two thirds of the comments are either directly off-topic, or responding to someone else’s off-topic comment with further off-topic discussion.
Now, in a topic like this, it’s hard to know what ‘offtopic’ really means – I do appreciate comments from cis men and women on their perspective, and I don’t want it to come across that I think comments from someone who isn’t trans (or is commenting about cis experiences) is inherently offtopic. It’s not. Likewise, I really enjoyed posts from the people who used their own experiences to make sense of my question, and come up with analagous situations. Obviously there is an issue with people being dismissive of trans experiences, but I’ve never had a problem with people acknowledging the reality that trans men and women don’t hold a monopoly on issues surrounding sex and gender. Indeed, I’m eager to hear about the experiences of others – even those who aren’t trans! – so that I might better understand my own.
But (and you knew there was going to be a ‘but’) after all the discussion on how to discuss trans issues, I’m a little disappointed in some members of the Feministing community. Again, I’m really getting a lot out of this discussion surrounding my original question. I can’t stress that enough, and I’ve been trying to go through and leave responses – both agreeing and disagreeing – with comments that particularly struck me. And I’m really trying not to say, “You’re not trans, so you can’t comment/don’t deserve to be educated on trans issues/etc.” But I don’t know that this thread was the appropriate place for a meta-discussion on the number of comments left by others or Feministing’s place in the trans community, and it certainly wasn’t the place for accusations about my own misogyny (or the extensive discussion which followed on why that’s transphobic).
And, damn it all, I don’t know how to handle those things. I don’t know the answer. As much as I’d like everyone to get a clue and not post those things in the first place, when someone does post something off-topic and/or transphobic, I’d rather have people respond than just ignore it. And I’m somewhat uncomfortable with deleting comments that are off-topic and/or transphobic unless they’re really inappropriate, because they may be of value to someone for some other reason. (Ideally, some other reason above and beyond a meta-discussion about their value or lack thereof!)
Likewise, while I really appreciated and enjoyed Prof F’s response to my original comment, I’m frustrated by her later post containing the line, “While [the above comments] are nasty, transphobic, and manipulative, the response to them has been so right on that I am leaving it as a great example of people on feministing responding to these kinds of comments.” Again, I don’t know what the right answer is, even though I don’t think this is it. Is the answer deletion? Of just the comment, or the comment and its replies? Some sort of ‘asshole’ alert? As one poster suggested, dissemvoweling the post? (Removing all the vowels so if you want to read it you can, but you have to go out of your way to understand the negative language.) I really don’t know.
This is all made more complicated because people aren’t going to be monitoring comments 24/7 with imediate response time. If a comment does stay up and generates multiple responses, is it worth closing down that entire thread to force staying on-topic?
I guess I’m asking a lot more questions than I am providing answers. And I’m guilty of being drawn into the meta-discussion about how to hold a discussion. I think my suggestion would be that Feministing come up with stock replacement text, along the lines of, “This comment is offtopic and/or offensive speech, and was not appropriate for this thread. Information on how to stay ontopic and respectful, and why this post may have been offtopic or offensive, may be found here.” (“Here” would be a link with that information and, perhaps, examples of specific posts and why they were offtopic or offensive.) The text would be put in place of the commenter’s post, and no replies would be allowed to the replacement, but replies and discussion, including “I don’t understand why my comment was offensive/offtopic,” would be allowed on the linked-to information page. That would seem to satisfy everyone: those who are simply seeking knowledge and not attempting to be offtopic, those who are (intentionally or unintentionally) offensive, and those who crave the meta-discussion about what is or isn’t on-topic…
Again, I want to reiterate that the experience of reading (and responding to) all these comments has been more positive than negative – it’s reassured me that, on the whole, Feministing’s community is able to be supportive when discussing trans issues. But not 100%, and not without veering offtopic along the way.
-R
theory, trans, transitioning
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blogs, feminism, meta, sex, sexuality, theory, transitioning
Themocracy
To be honest, reading that discussion convinced me that Feministing is still not a safe place for transgender people.
Welcome, Caoimhe. Can I ask why you feel that way? As I said, I’m not particularly happy with how the conversation was conducted, but I also remain really torn as to whether I felt unsafe or simply surrounded by people who (mostly) don’t ‘get’ it. I realize there can be a major overlap between those two categories, which is why I’m still mulling things over.
I’m also conscious of just beginning, in the last couple of months, to really start to get involved in any online trans or feminist communities. So it may be that I’m simply not used to the ridiculousness of transphobic/offtopic discussion and am willing, for the time being, to put up with it.
Any thoughts?
-R
Yeah, it may just be that you’re okay with it and don’t mind it. It seems, however, that feministing is one of those feminist sites dominated by cis women where every discussion about trans issues becomes a situation where a trans person has to justify his or her existence and experiences.
I don’t like that whole notion, and reading the thread just made me feel less and less welcome there the more I read — especially the whole “we’ll leave this up to show just how trans-friendly feministing REALLY is! (and those dumb trans people are wrong!)” vibe.
And a cis woman giving sex advice to a trans woman? I know you did ask and all, but to be honest, even someone like Dan Savage (who I hate) would go and ask a trans woman for advice to give you rather than, like, googling a little and wishing you luck.
Hmm. You’re definitely right that the thread did not stay horribly on topic and often became disrespectful. I’ll need to pay closer attention to the comment threads in the future, and it may very well be that you’re right to write Feministing off as simply not being trans-friendly site. (And the more I think about it, the more Prof F’s response about leaving the comment and responses intact annoys me.)
As for asking in the first place, I’d be open to any other suggestions for where to look. I’d hoped someone who was more generally familiar with sex and sexuality education might have heard of some good resources, but you’re right than a trans resource would be better. Any thoughts?
-R
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I have to say I tend to agree with Caoimhe. Every comments thread on there under a post relating to trans issues descends into derail and even transphobia at times, as far as I can tell.
Hi there Rebecca,
Name’s Kate. I thought I would reply here (on your own blog) rather than on feministing for fear of it getting lost. I don’t know how you identify sexually (ie: straight, bi, dyke) but I put out a zine last year, and am planning a second issue, about my own experiences being a transsexual dyke. In it there’s porn that I made/starred in, an erotic story about two trans women getting it on, poetry, rants and raves, and Montreal specific resources. I’d love to send you a copy.
Also, I’m currently working on writing a collection of short lesbian erotic stories wherein there is at least one trans person per story. Sadly, it won’t be out for another 2 or 3 years but I’d love to send you some of the stories I’ve been working on.
Anyway, e-mail me feminist_ally@yahoo.ca and we can chat more about this
xoxo
Kate
Thanks for stopping by, Kate! I’d love to get my hands on your zine, and I’ll email you with more contact info.
I second Caoimhe (or third, I has lost count). I don’t consider Feministing particularly safe for trans people at all.
Little comprehension beyond 101, and even that is patchy. Cis people consistently make every trans thread about themselves, because heaven forbid we directly focus on trans issues for more than a second.
And the moderation is pretty much on the nil side, so by sheer weight of numbers it’s just too much.
But that’s all negatively defined – how oppressive (or not) it is. The more pertinent question is, how *constructive* is it for trans people? We deal with enough shit in our lives, is this a worthwhile use of our time?
For myself at least, I’m going to go with a no on both counts *shrug*
Thanks for stopping by, Queen Emily.
I think there is a (subtle) difference between being a safe space and being a supportive space. Feministing, to me, feels like a relatively safe space for trans people and discussion, as those espousing transphobic views are outnumbered by those who don’t. But it’s not a supportive space, because the community/groupthink/whatever doesn’t ‘get’ how to hold trans-focused discussions.
I can understand why someone would disagree with me, though, and say it’s neither safe nor supportive. As I reread this comment, having the definition of “safe” as “transphobia outnumbered by non-transphobia” is pretty weak. So, contradicting myself, maybe it’s neither safe nor supportive. Maybe the best that can be said is that it’s “mostly not transphobic” (pretty weak praise, I admit).
As for whether or not it’s constructive, I hadn’t thought about it in those terms and, from there, I think you’re right – I haven’t seen a constructive trans-focused discussion at Feministing about the original post’s topic. That is, I think the meta-discussion about how to hold discussions is (or, at least, can be) constructive, but that’s not good enough if it’s wildly off topic from the original post.
So, in the end, I guess I’m coming around to your (and Caiomhe’s, and others’) point of view…
“having the definition of “safe” as “transphobia outnumbered by non-transphobia” is pretty weak.”
Absolutely.
I mean, I think given that *any* transphobia can be triggering, that’s vastly insufficient. When you negotiate or have negotiated a lot of transphobia, hearing the same lines over and over, from feminists to the guy who attacked you, then yeah. Not safe by a long shot.
And sure, blogs don’t *need* to be safe spaces which does (or at least should) have that nurturing, supportive quality you mentioned, but more of the same is still, well, more of the same. In whatever amount it occurs, though YMMV of course.
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